Imagining the Unimaginable

Patti Pon: Then let’s get started. So we’re gonna have people coming in and welcoming people. Hello, everybody! Welcome, for those of you I don’t know, my name is Patti Pon. I’m the President and CEO for Calgary Arts Development and yes, it does look like there are things getting sprayed out of my head which, you know is how I feel most days. But there you go, all good. It’s nice, it’s all colourful and thank you very much for joining us today.

As always, it is our desire and our intention to make our spaces for the Equity Town Halls, and all of the kind of meetings and gatherings that we host, to make them a safe space for everyone. And so, as a result of that, we commit to group agreements which can be found in the link that is in your chat. Thank you very much, Helen, for including that. So, I would ask all of you who are joining us on the call today to have a look at those group agreements. For those of you who perhaps might be watching the recording later, this is a question I have to ask of my friends. Will there be somewhere where they can find the group agreements in the recording?

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: That’s a good question. Can they see? They can’t see the chat when they watch the recording? Can they.

Patti Pon: Think so, and even if they did, I’m not sure it’s a hyperlink. So.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: It’s calgaryartsdevelopment.com/policies/ group-agreements-2023. Or if they go to our website, they could also search group agreements, and that would bring them to the link.

Patti Pon: That’s great. Thank you very much, Helen.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: You’re welcome.

Patti Pon: The lovely and talented Angèle is providing tech support for us today. So if any of you are having any other technical difficulties, please, or any technical difficulties, please send a message directly to Angèle, and she’s put a heart sign up in her window. So there you go. As always for today and all of our sessions, if you have any questions during the presentation, please feel free to put them in the chat. Helen will be monitoring the chat who you just heard from, and we’ll do our best to get to your questions at the end of our timer or in the conversation and Q&A time that we have planned for today.

Previously we had announced that JD. Derbyshire would be hosting today’s session, and they were unexpectedly called away on another matter. And so, as a result, I’m happy to step in as host, and hope that I can even do just a little bit of justice to what I’m sure JD would have brought to today’s proceedings.

As those of you who are already online are aware, the session will be recorded, and it’ll be posted on our website for folks who were unable to attend. So I believe we’ve started the recording already. So there you go.

So let’s get going today. As is our practice. We like to acknowledge that we are coming to you today, I’m coming to you today from Mohkinsstsis, the ancestral territory of the Siksikaitsitapi — the Blackfoot people, comprising the Siksika, the Piikani and the Kainai Nations, as well as Treaty 7 signatories, the Tsuut’ina Nation and the Chiniki, Goodstoney, and Bearspaw First Nations of the Îyârhe Nakoda peoples. Today this land is also home to the Otipemisiwak Métis Government Districts 5 and 6, as well as the many First Nations and Inuit from across Turtle Island, and all of us who have the great honour and privilege of calling this place home.

You know it’s, for any of you who’ve heard me offer the land acknowledgement, I often talk about how art and storytelling and dance and celebration has taken place on this land since time immemorial, and as a result of that, that means there’s been the presence of artists and creatives on this land since time immemorial. And that’s one of the reasons why I think it’s so important for us to acknowledge that because it acknowledges the presence of the creative hearts and minds and spirits of those who keep our stories alive and pass them on.

I also think that today, in particular, as we’re talking about a session called Imagining the Unimaginable: Equity for Newcomers and Immigrants in the Art Sector, as we all know, there’s lots, there’s more and more conversation and comments coming up about What is it to be a newcomer? What is it to be a settler? What is it to, you know, even if you’ve had your people here on this land for generations, What does it mean? And so I think it’s very timely for us, particularly today, and in this session, to really kind of ask ourselves that. And as we hear from Toyin and we begin a conversation more broadly, I think it’s really interesting for us, and not even, well in Calgary, but the world generally, as we’re hearing more and more about migrants and immigrants, and go back where you came from, even though maybe where you came from is right here, and so I’m just so pleased today that Toyin has graciously agreed to share her story with us, and in turn offer us an opportunity to have a broader conversation among those of us who are able to join the call today.

So, as I’ve said, it is my pleasure to introduce our guest speaker, Toyin Oladele. Toyin is an award-winning artist, arts manager and leader, with nearly two decades of curation and community engagement experience. She leverages art to create inclusive spaces and champions equity, diversity and social change through strategic partnerships. As a dedicated mentor and advocate, Toyin empowers diverse and minority communities, immigrants and newcomers, fostering a sense of belonging and promoting social impact in the arts sector. Her work drives social change and creative expression.

In 2019 Toyin founded the Immigrant Council for Arts Innovation. Some of you may know it by its shorter acronym ICAI which is an Alberta-based Arts Council, dedicated to facilitating the integration of newcomer and immigrant arts professionals into Alberta’s existing arts landscape. ICAI is committed to fostering diversity of expression and culture through a supportive and inclusive community where newcomer and immigrant arts professionals can confidently showcase their work within a new environment.

Recently ICAI won the ATB Powering Possibility Through the Arts Award, which was given out at the 2024 Celebration for the Arts hosted by Mayor Jyoti Gondek a few weeks ago. This award recognizes and supports organizations who are committed to enriching Calgary through arts programming that powers possibilities for the local creative community. And then Toyin herself was recently awarded the John Hobday award in Arts Management by the Canada Council for the Arts. The John Hobday awards are granted to talented arts, managers from Canada for professional development or mentoring purposes. Toyin received a mentorship award which is an award that goes to an arts manager who is seeking to acquire different knowledge, experience and skills under the supervision of a mentor.

Toyin will be mentoring with Alex Sarian, the President, and CEO of Arts Commons, to enhance her leadership skills in community engagement, diverse cultural connections, artistic programming and education to build sustainable integrated program structures for newcomer and immigrant arts professionals in Alberta. And I would hazard to say that I think there’s probably a few things that Alex is going to learn from you, Toyin. I think that’s a really wonderful accolade and congratulations to you. I wonder now, Toyin, if you could start us off by telling us your story of coming to Calgary, and what it was like to navigate a whole new world in your journey as an arts manager and an arts leader.

Toyin Oladele: Oh, thank you, thanks so much, Patti. That was such a beautiful introduction. I appreciate that. Hi, everyone. Thanks for showing up for this session. I was just telling Helen like, okay, I don’t know, will anybody show up? Okay? But I’m really grateful to be here to be a part of this session, I’d like to say a very big thank you to JD, also, because this was their idea to kind of go whoa, I think your story is fascinating. I think it’s going to be great to share on this platform. So I’m really excited that I have that privilege, and stories are meant to be shared, I would say, like you shouldn’t keep stories to yourself, especially when they have the capacity to make a change or to inspire someone, or to change a narrative about something in a positive way. So that’s why I’m excited to share today.

I would start from, I would maybe start from, when I was coming to Canada. I got to Canada 2017, but my husband was the person that was like he’d like to come to Canada sometimes in 2012, or 2013, 2012. And I was like, Okay, I mean, I’ve had cousins, I have cousins across Canada in Toronto, and all those things like right from when I was a kid, but I never thought that the time was going to come that I was going to come all the way to Canada myself, and I just felt like, okay, I’ll follow you wherever you go. And then he came to Canada, and I have a cousin here actually, who is family. So we just decided, okay, we’ll do Calgary, especially also because he’s a geologist and a project manager and things like that. So it was kind of only natural that we would come here. But outside that was he kept asking me. I remember he kept asking me like, Okay, what are you going to do because we, during our preparation time, I, some of the courses that I took, I would ask them questions like, Okay, so I mean this, this is my experience, do you know places that I can work with this kind of experience? And all the folks that were taking those courses were like, no, we can’t think of something, but don’t worry, when you get here, you figure it out. Okay. So we got here and I started figuring things out like Googling, trying to find like, Okay, where do I find, you know, interestingly, I can’t remember the kind of things I was Googling back then, because now they are no longer in my brain, right? But I’m guessing I probably googled things that were not resonating with what I should, I don’t know, but I just couldn’t find anything. I couldn’t really find anything. And most of the things I found if I tried to reach out, nobody replied.

So one day along the line of Googling and Googling, I found an agency. They weren’t like, an acting agency or something like that, and they were just like, Oh, yeah, we are able to help people with your experience. And I told them my experience like, this is what I’ve done, I’ve curated shows I’ve done theatre because I’m actually from a theatre background, and I’ll talk more about that later. And I’ve done a lot of curatorial work, I’ve owned a studio, I’ve done a lot of consulting and things like that. How can you help me? And they will just say, Yeah, yeah, there are just some programs you have to take, part of those programs were things that would change my accent. I’m telling you the truth. They’d be like, oh, so you have to do American Accent 101 and North American accent, and all those interesting things that so kind of awkward to me. But I’m new, and there was nobody to talk to, and I didn’t know if what I was doing was right or wrong, really, I just knew that okay, at least these people offered me something, so I took it.

At first I think it was like $300, I’m like, okay, that’s easy. And gradually it became, oh, you also have to take this, and you also have to take that and you also… and I remember the last one was something that was very close to $5,000. So in total, I’d spent close to $5,000 like $4000 something there about. And three days after I made that big payment, I fell on ACTRA’s website somehow, somehow, and I saw where it was clearly written “Do not pay any agency any training fee.” Yeah, I cried for three days, no stop. Like, even when I want to laugh, tears will start rolling, because, you know, you’re new, I was brand new. I was less than a year or so. I was about a year around this time, was I? Even up to a year? I’m not sure I wasn’t up to a year, actually. Even when I want to laugh, tears will roll because it was painful, especially because I got back to this agency, and I realized that all the schedules they give us, all the things they promised, none of them was actually happening. Somebody would say, Why did you keep paying? Because I didn’t have a choice, and I didn’t know better. And for one, it’s really tough, I’ve always felt it’s tough to scam a Nigerian coming from Nigeria like, how do you scam in like, how do you have that capacity? And so I’ve always felt like, no, I think this is real. And then I went to the Google, you know, reviews, and boom! It just occurred to me that I’ve just been scammed, and they stopped taking my call and all that and all that. I didn’t even have the energy. And that was when I knew, okay, this is real. So I just took my mind off the arts. And I was like, okay, I’m not doing this anymore, like I’ll just focus on something else, I’ll try to get a new skill, which was really hard, because from probably when I was about seven I’ve been involved in the arts one way or the other, choir, theatre radio shows, I’ve done a whole lot of things in that aspect. So I kept thinking of what I was going to do, and I went to CIWA, which is Calgary Immigrant, which is Calgary, Immigrant Women’s Association, and I was there, I was taking their training for administration, hoping at least I could pick up my life from there.

It was while I was there that one day I was on Linkedin, and I saw a post by Lanre Ajayi. Meanwhile, while I was in Nigeria, somebody had told me, where are you going? And I said I was going to Calgary. They said, I know somebody there. His name is Lanre, you should connect with him, but we didn’t really connect, because, you know, you’re still settling, you’re still looking for things. And so I saw his post on Linkedin and I and I reached out to be like, You’re posting on a movie set, you’re talking about acting and you’re talking about art, and you’re talking about all these things — who are you? Where are you from? How come you know all these things and I don’t? And he was like, send your phone number. I sent it, and we talked for two straight hours because I had so much questions, I couldn’t stop talking, I just kept asking questions and all, and luckily he was able to answer a whole lot of them. And it just occurred to me that something was wrong because other sectors didn’t find it so difficult to like, if it is tough to establish yourself as a professional in your field, at least you will know where to go to. I just felt no, something was not right. How come in all the settlement agencies, none of them could like direct me to this place you call CADA. None of them could tell me that there’s something called Calgary Arts something or Contemporary Calgary or Arts Commons or something. None of them could say anything. Why? And it just started occurring to me like, Hey, there are some gaps there.

So every day I started researching, and I would just go back online and I would just find out what’s happening in other parts of Canada, and it just kept building and building. I went back to the settlement agencies at some point and I was like, you know what I think I found the arts. Do you know anyone who is a newcomer or anyone who is just coming? Just give them my phone number. Don’t worry, just give them. And I don’t know what happened, but there was some sort of alignment, and more and more people started calling me. It was like it was the right time right place. And this person will be like, oh, I’m a sculptor! Oh, I’m a dancer! Oh, this is what I do! Oh, I write, or …and I found myself constantly always meeting people because I was working at the library part time then. and I would, during my break have those 10 min coffee, 30 min coffee with literally everybody that calls my phone. And it also occurred to me like I wasn’t the only one that got scammed. There were other people, and those things just kept inspiring me to be like, okay, we have to find a solution to this like, there has to be a solution, right? Things can just continue like that. What could possibly be the solution? And that’s another story entirely that led to ICAI. I don’t know how far you want me to go with the story? Do I continue with how ICAI came to be, or do I stop there? Do you have other things you want to say.

Patti Pon: ICAI is an exemplar. It’s one of the only organizations of its kind in Canada, so I think it’d be great to share that story.

Toyin Oladele: Absolutely. Thank you. I think it pretty much started from speaking with everybody, just talking with people and hearing their story. A particular story that I heard that I can never forget was a lady who just got here from Iran, I think she has this beautiful works, and she was, sometimes I would show up to people’s houses, you know, like I would just once. They tell me this is what they do. I’m like I’d like to see it, and then I’ll just go. And I go to her house, and she was showing me this painting she had of her daughter. And she told me how this, her love story, and how that painting came to be. Both of us sat on a staircase and we were teary for almost like an hour. We we were just talking and talking, and it was so inspiring, and all those things just kept coming together.

So I spoke one day with one of my mentors who was working at the library at that time, she was the executive assistant to the CEO, and I knew that she had a lot of experience with administration, she had been in Canada for almost 20 years, and I was like, Okay, this is what I’m seeing. I’m seeing that there’s a problem here, I’m seeing that it’s like this sector and the newcomer immigrant sector — there isn’t anything connecting the two, and she was like, well, maybe you should. And I was like, what does that even mean? It’s like, you can start a nonprofit. You can actually start an organization that would help and things like that. And I’m okay, what does that mean? And I just kept again, I love to research. I always joke to say that don’t try to hide anything from me, because I’ll find it. As long as I know you’re trying to hide it, I will find it. If you’re hiding something, don’t let me know you’re hiding something.

Anyway, so I started, you know, just going online, and I heard about the Rozsa program, so I took it. I remember taking RAFT which was facilitated by Geraldine Ysselstein, and this was like early, I can’t even remember, 2019. It was 2019. And I just took the program. And from taking RAFT I really understood structuring and how to build an organization and things like that in the Canadian context, of course, and of course I just give it a shot, and we started from one thing, a little a step at a time.

The main purpose of a ICAI, and what I thought ICAI could solve was to provide an entry point for professionals in the arts. So a lot of people have programming for newcomers and things like that in the organizations as arts organizations, you would hear things like, Oh, yeah, we have this workshop, or we have this programming, we’re inviting newcomers and things like that. But that wasn’t my focus. My focus was on people that are like me people who actually work in the arts and are trying to get employment in the arts. Not necessarily people who want to enjoy the arts, because those are two different things. It was about people who are here, they have this experience where they’re coming from they’ve worked in music, in theatre, in all those things, and then they want to be here now, they want to work here. How do they find other art organizations? How do they know when CADA is hiring? When Arts Commons is hiring, or Contemporary Calgary, or anybody for that matter? How do they know? And when they know? How do they know what to put on their application? Because you see, for other sectors those things are well laid out. If you’re a doctor, there are exams you have to take in order to even qualify to practice here. Now, that is very tricky for the arts, because we’re all doing different things. Art is very expressive, and because of that, it’s tough to really have a one way in like this is just going to be the way we’re going to treat everybody. Which is what led to all the programs that we created. And, Patti, you’re right. I did a research across Canada and I found out that Toronto Arts Foundation has a mentorship program, and this was recently, tyhis was like after the pandemic. There’s a mentorship program, the mentorship program they have. There is another one in Montreal. and that’s about it. And then there is one in New York, and that was all I could find, and I did an extensive search.

Now there are a couple of people who put up some sort of programming here and there once in a while for newcomers and stuff, but I knew that that wasn’t going to be sufficient. Because we need to see it this way, right, people are coming to Canada every day. People coming to Calgary every day. That’s the truth. The rate at which people are coming into, you know, Canada, it’s high, right, of course. And if there is a sector with no intentional plan of welcoming people into that sector, to me it felt like that that that sector is like almost unintentionally alienating themselves or itself from the multitude of talents that are coming into the country. There are medical people, there are lawyers, there are accountants and all those things, because there’s a laid down process it is easier for people to find themselves in, except they don’t want to do it anymore. But the art was totally different, like, I couldn’t find that that specific way, either through mentorship or through anything that could let me in. And so that is what led to ICAI, that is what led to founding the organization.

When we started the organization, it was just at the library. We were very lucky to get funding from Calgary Arts Development which helped us to lay the foundation for the organization and the foundation means we went all out. We wanted to hear from, remember that throughout this, 2019, 2020, 2018 part of it, I had developed relationships with different people, who were also newcomers and immigrants. And so I remember our very first event, we had about 60 RSVPs, and we had a head count of about 120 at the BMO room at the library. It was crazy. People were outside, literally just hanging out to see what ICAI was all about, same for the second event and the third, and then the pandemic came, so there wasn’t any opportunity to do anything physical, but we still kept on with programming that has led us to where we are now. And at that time, like, I said, one of the challenges that I faced personally as an individual, and even that I faced was the fact that we couldn’t have anybody that we could model our organization after it was very tricky. It is still very tricky. The newcomer and the immigrant world, I mean the arts and the immigrant newcomer world, we couldn’t model our organization after any typical art organization because we’re now an art servicing organization, right? At the same time, there wasn’t like any newcomer, immigrant organization or settlement agency that we could model after. So it was like, we’re in the middle, we’re going to have to find our own way.

That has been the most difficult thing or the most challenging thing, let me say, ever. because every day we realize the nuances of navigating those two things are very, very different. However, with the support we’ve gotten from the community, and you know, a lot of mentorship and things like that, it’s working daily,  we’re exploring, we’re creating our own path and we’re figuring it out as we go.

ICAI as of today, one of the things that I’ll use to like conclude this question, two years ago we wanted to know exactly what we were doing in terms of numbers, like, how many people are we even serving? Wait, how many people are newcomers in this sector? Because whenever you go back to settlement agencies and you and you ask questions like, Do you have anything for the arts now? and things like that. A lot of times you will hear things like We don’t even get artists coming. We don’t get, you know, art managers coming. It’s not a top priority right now, it’s a nice to have, but it’s not what I particularly wanted to know. So I put up a membership form, It was one of the reasons, of course, right now there are so many reasons, but it was one of the things that inspired that like, let’s actually know how many people we’re working with. And we put up a membership form to track our members, to see the people accessing our programs, our workshops, our trainings and things like that. And as of today, in two years, we have over 400 members, newcomers and immigrants coming into Alberta. I say, Alberta because, even though we started from Calgary, ICAI now operates, you know Alberta-wide and helping newcomers and immigrants in all the cities. We have over 400 members in our database. I’m going to pause there and let you ask the next question and see how, you know, other aspects to come into the story, but that’s probably one of the most inspiring things I’ve seen so far that has happened to ICAI. Thank you.

Patti Pon: It’s incredible Toyin and thank you so much for sharing your story in that way. And I think there’s something quite interesting in what you say like, you know, for those folks who are artists in particular, and are finding themselves as newcomers to Canada and to Calgary in particular, you know I don’t want to say that there haven’t been artists who have been involved with previous kind of waves of immigration into Canada, but I think it’s been different, you know, and I think about there’s a new Ukrainian Theatre company who’s performing primarily in Ukrainian, but they are also, and they are also working in and have managed to find their way into the “mainstream” theatre community as well as, I know some of those members are working on other productions in the city. And so I, I’m not gonna form this question very well. But I think there’s something like, I feel like you’ve really captured something that is affording newcomers to Calgary this opportunity to really live their most creative lives. And I wonder if you might offer some of us like, you know, the horror story you shared about paying money to the agency, like, are there ways for those of us, I think about CADA in particular to reach into community like, is it about us? Obviously, there’s ICAI, but the Centre for Newcomers or Immigrant Services Canada, like, are there places where maybe as mainstream organizations who have resource, who have staff should be reaching out to share this kind of information, if nothing else. You know I may already. I’m sure you already have those connections to newcomer organizations, but you know, but I think about when the larger orgs do auditions, or are hiring designers. Things we should be thinking about that we are reaching newcomer artists. You know what I mean? Like I, like your story says to me once again, we place the burden on you. You had to pay $5,000. You had to accidentally find the ACTRA website, and so is there something, are there things that you know from your experience, or those you’ve heard from ICAI members that those of us who could maybe spread the information farther could be doing to help prevent future toy-in stories like that.

Toyin Oladele: No, I know right? And thank you so much for asking that question, because that’s very key. Right? That’s the whole point for these kind of conversations, I think for me as an individual and for organizations, like one of the things that we’ve done already, and by we trust me, I mean, everybody is what people like Sayo are currently doing. Sayo works with CADA, by the way, everyone. I remember when Sayo started one of the conversations we had was, Okay, what do you do? And what is this about? How can other people get to know? And these questions that you just asked. And we had series of conversations around that one of the areas that we have not explored yet, which will probably answer your question, which is not honestly super challenging or difficult, I think it’s just the next thing that one of the next things that I really wanted to, you know, talk about with Sayo in the next couple of weeks, or soonest, or maybe next year, or before the year runs out, is how we can take materials from Calgary Arts Development, maybe some postcards like material and things like that, and leave them in those type of offices. Inviting key people on their team like the settlement counsellors, their professional counsellors like their career counsellors and all, to be aware that this is what we have here.

You see, I’m going to talk about a bigger challenge here around settlement agencies and the arts, and all, because it’s not unique to Calgary, it’s not unique to Alberta, it’s not trust me. It’s all over. Because historically people who work in the creative sector don’t really have any support from these settlement agencies. Most times people don’t go there anymore, and you know the way it is, the more you use something, the more you get better at it. And because they don’t, even if you go as of today, and you go to like I don’t know, sign up for newcomers or something you’re like, Hey, I will work in the arts even as of today. With these 400 members. you will still hear someone tell you we don’t really get artists. And what that taught me, what that did to me, is that okay, these people don’t actually come here anymore because nobody has been helping them before, so why would they keep coming? So imagine that okay? So I mentioned that I saw Lanre Ajayi’s post on Linkedin, right? Imagine that he went to CCIS, which he did, or he went to Centre for Newcomers, which he did, or he went to any of the settlement agencies, not anyone, in particular Immigrant Services or anyone, imagine that he went there, and he didn’t get a lot of help. What do you think would happen when I talk to him? He will tell me not to bother to go, right? That instead go to CADA, because that’s where I got help. And so that is the tricky part of the story. However, one thing I like is that it doesn’t really matter when you find yourself. The most important thing is to know what to do when you eventually find yourself, now that we realize that there’s a problem, or there’s a challenge here, maybe we can start from actually those physical postcards. Funny enough, I think that would go a long way in helping if we just leave, you know Calgary Arts Development information, this is what we do, or this is how you can contact us and we leave it there.

One good thing that has happened, and I hope, like Sayo, will permit me to share this story, when we so we had a conversation months ago, I think, last year or last two years, or just as the pandemic was, well, it’s still here, but at least as it was rounding off, and I remember Sayo asking, maybe we should have something on the website that says that if you’re a newcomer, that is CADA’s website, if you’re a newcomer or you’re trying to find information or resources, reach out to Sayo. We’ve had people reach out to Sayo from their home country. From there. I mean from their home country to CADA without even stepping into Calgary yet, so they are not in Calgary yet. So we’ve started the process. CADA is already doing the job honestly, and that was such a good news for me, because you can imagine that somebody fell on the website actually, but they couldn’t see anything that could lead them or to help them, as someone that was just settling into the city. Which shows this newcomer that okay, CADA is thinking about me. This city is thinking about me. Calgary is thinking about me as a creative person. They have some sort of support for me. And so it’s easier to reach out to Sayo and Sayo say Okay, there’s this organization called ICAI, or WP Puppet Theatre, or there is this Arts Commons or whatever it is, and these people come there, come to Calgary, it is faster for them to find their way, that way. As I speak with you, I think I know I don’t know how many people have reached out to Sayo, but I think I know about two or three. They are all in good employment in Calgary in the arts today, and it didn’t take them forever to figure it out. It didn’t, like you said Patti, it’s exactly what you said, they didn’t have to have a horror story. And that is one thing I would say, that has happened already, but we can up it right? We can, we can have these postcards and a couple of other things have actually happened. Also, I remember being on the CWG Community Working Group for EDIA for CADA, it was one of the things that I brought up at the beginning to be like, Hey, I don’t know if we can throw in words like newcomers and immigrants to some of these calls that we have going out there, to some of these invitations for employment that we have going out there. And these things have changed narratives, these things have changed people’s story, and how they easily find opportunities.

I just invite other art organizations, even though, of course, you’re not all funders, to kind of follow that step that you know CADA has already started and involve those kind of details that can help newcomers find you faster in your calls and your invitations and things like that. But most importantly, I think one of the things that we will do is to like, create a poster, create a flyer, and I am very happy to just pick them up from CADA’s office and take them all to all the settlement agencies, one after the other, to be like, please leave this here, even if only one artist comes in a year, I am so happy that they don’t have to have a horror story, and that would make a whole lot of difference. So I hope that answers your question.

Patti Pon: I’m muted. I knew that. Thank you so much for that response Toyin. And also, I know that we have Sayo on the call with us and, Sayo, please feel free to add any further commentary with respect to some of the things the good work that I know you’ve done on certainly our behalf, and also that of the community. Again, I would remind folks that this really is intended to be a multi-person conversation, so if you have any comments or questions that you have for Toyin, I was going to say Sayo, or Sayo, or me, or anyone else, if you have your own stories to share, perhaps as a newcomer artist, or perhaps as an organization who has attracted and found ways to meet and work with those who are new to our communities, we would love to hear those stories as well. So on that note I’ll continue the conversation with Toyin, and so I think I, did I hear someone? Or was that me?

Toyin Oladele: No, I think it was me. I was just saying absolutely.

Patti Pon: Oh, okay, for sure, and thank you. Nick has put a note in the chat, saying I’d be happy to work on a handout flyer/postcard for agencies to hand out. So thank you, Nick. Nick’s a member of our Comms team here at Calgary Arts Development, and I am so appreciative of the kind of adaptive capacity and the flexibility and the curiosity that our team share. That’s certainly something I think that I heard from you Toyin in in sharing your story and the beginnings of ICAI right? Never assume anything, never take anything for granted. I think sometimes it’s really easy for those of us in the mainstream, I’m just going to use that term, and you correct me if you feel like there’s a better term to use. Sometimes resources are so thin already that the forms of communication or the forms of outreach that we all already undertake, we feel like we’re doing as much as we can, and I think that what I hear from you is it’s not do more. It’s do different.

Toyin Oladele: Yes.

Patti Pon: Think about who’s on your distribution lists. And you know, and so obviously, we centred on newcomer communities, but I’d also encourage people to think about the multicultural media organizations like Fairchild radio, and some of the ethnocultural newspapers like, we have Tsing Tao in the Chinese community, CJSW programs a number of multicultural programs, so even just going to CJSW and sharing that information gives people a chance to share it among many of the programmers who undertake shows on CJSW and CKUA.

I wonder are there other places that you or anyone on the call can think of where maybe you were, you know, like I know, Sayo, for example, is very engaged and involved with the Women’s Centre, right? And we don’t often think about the Women’s Centre as a newcomer organization. Many women who are part of their programs are newcomers. So might we use a couple of minutes to think about other places that we might want to include on our distribution channels. Folks, if you’re not comfortable coming on camera, please be sure to type anything and everything in the chat. I think this would be really helpful and generative for us.

Toyin Oladele: Yes, please, I’d really love to see more myself. Yeah, honestly, because I know people have different experiences, and they have gone through this differently. So, the way I went through this whole thing isn’t what happened to everybody, like so many people, have different stories, and I’ll give you another story, for instance, which I believe I’m able to share. So, I mentioned how I saw Lanre on Linkedin. cSPACE was what saved his life. He was just working as a volunteer, I think, with the City for or with the event coordination department I believe, I’m not sure. And one day there was supposed to be an event at cSPACE and boom, while he was out there, just setting up, someone just told him to go in. Like, let me just see what this space is about, and he was like a kid in a candy store, you know, the way this space is set up, it’s like you can’t see enough. It was almost like his head was spinning in that moment to be like, wait, there is something like this in this city, and nobody told me, and I didn’t know. And that was his own saviour, like cSPACE just took it from him right there and then, very interesting, that moment he walked into an office, and he got a job without even submitting an application or talking to anyone. He just literally talked to the owner, I can’t remember now of the space, and he said, This is what I’ve done in Nigeria, this is my experience, this is this, can I come and volunteer for you and they were like, you know what you don’t need to volunteer, we actually we’re looking for teachers right now, from what I’ve seen on your phone, I think you can teach this. Do you want to start on… he was that interested. Now that is someone else’s story. Like for me it was more way more bitter. But for some people he was also more fun like, it just depends, so absolutely, I’d like to know more places and more spaces.

One of the things that I focused on is also community associations. and I know we can’t cover everything we can’t. But we know about community. Let me start into Studio C, as, oh, yeah Studio C, that was it. It was studio C, at cSPACE. Thank you. Community associations, thanks. Geraldine, Hi, nice to see you. Community associations really, really helped also, especially in the northeast part of Calgary, where I literally almost, I decided to go door knocking, literally knocking on people’s doors like multicultural organizations, community associations from Marlborough and engaging everyone and just telling them, Hi, I work in the arts, would you like to learn about this, I see you’re a newcomer, you know, attending like newcomer programming program, new programming sessions and just having conversations with them.

And even when I started transitioning in my, and I don’t want to take, I don’t want to take this opportunity away from giving ideas, so if you have ideas, please put in the chat. But I’m just telling you the stories of how I connected this huge number of people. Of course I knew that the northeast has, you know, huge number of immigrants, but it’s not just the northeast, other parts of Calgary also, and I did that across the four quadrants, not just the northeast, but of course the northeast took way more. and I would just ask them questions, and we’ll just chill. Sit, eat sometimes… Helen, am I running too fast? Sorry.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: No, no, finish your thought. I just have an idea of something I wanted to bring up, but I don’t. I’m not gonna, finish your thought.

Toyin Oladele: I’ve been pretty conscious of that, I know I talk really fast when I’m a little nervous. Okay, so and I would just go there and we’ll have food, we’ll have some fun time, different stories, different cultures from different people. Sometimes I’ll go into people’s art to like work to critique their work. If they invite me, they’ll be like, Come, critique this thing. And so it was a lot of experience for me, I gained a lot of experience from just doing that, from just having conversations. People will share their scripts, their stories, and they’ll be like one day. I know I’m going to be able to perform this at a theatre in Calgary — a lot of them are already doing that right now, and it’s amazing for me to see that. So yeah, community associations, religious groups, I do that across different religious groups, the Calgary Mosque, I’ve been there a couple of times. I’m telling you the truth. I just went all out, and I will just go sometimes to their offices, sometimes during, and I’ll just tell them, do you have people who work in the arts? Do you have people who are interested in working in the arts? So let’s not even let’s not even stop at people who are coming with an artistic experience now, let’s start having conversation about people who are here now, but they’d like to do something for the community, right? Art related, or something, and I’ll start just asking those questions and seeing if we can. And it was pretty, it’s always pretty relaxed, pretty chilled. I just want to hear your story sometimes. It’s all about the story.

I talked about an artist who painted her daughter, and who just wanted me to see the work, and I just went into where they are, and they told me the story. It was actually a sad story of how, and that was why we cried for an hour. I cry a lot, sometimes very unnecessary sometimes, but sometimes when you hear some stories you can’t just stop the tears from rolling. And she told me about how she got married in Iran, and two months after her wedding there was a bomb in their house, and her husband from there became paralyzed till he died, and that story inspired her to like do a lot of the paintings in her house. So by the time she was on the third painting I was on the floor, I was totally a mess, and she was the one like trying to console me. It was a very interesting scene. She was like, I didn’t know you’re this emotional. I would never have told you my story. I’m like, no, it’s okay, I’m just not myself, but I’ll put myself together. And hearing those things I just felt like no, no, no, there is no reason why stories like this shouldn’t get outside like, why should you be the only person keeping this to yourself.

And sometimes from the most random places. When I got started one of our volunteers, because we’re all volunteering, went to visit a friend, and when she was leaving the friend walked her out, of course, and she noticed that this friend had a guest in the basement from the window. So she was like, huh. She saw some little images, little sculptures on the window, and she was like, huh! Where did you get these things from? Do you have a tenant or a guest? And she said, Yeah, she has this guest who has been living in her basement for years, and this ICAII volunteer was like, Is this person an artist? And they said, Yes, I can tell from these things I’m seeing from the window. Can I talk to them? And I think they’re from Russia, I believe, and she was like, Yeah, why not? So she called this artist out, and this artist had been in Canada for 15 years. and they didn’t have one opportunity to showcase anything they had with them. They only always make it in the house and leave it there, and that was how they got to know ICAI, and I think we presented their work in one of the very first exhibitions we had, and now they’re literally touring Canada. I see their work all the time when this, because they always send it to me, and it’s always very inspiring to see things like that. So yeah, sometimes from the random places, from the most random places that you can even imagine, different places, for that matter. But yeah, a place like cSPACE, it would be great to have like CADA’s, you know, postcards there, some community centres, some cultural groups in their offices, and at least have ambassadors in different places that can let people know that, you know, organizations like this exist. That would be really great. Helen…

Patti Pon: And so yes, we have, Helen asking a question. And before, Helen, I just invite you that’s a reminder to us as we’re talking about these distribution channels, when we have our holiday open house coming up, we should make sure that we try and reach out to the very communities and organizations that we’re talking about. And I also think that for those of you on the call, irrespective, because I see a lot of CADA colleagues as well as community colleagues, all of you, regardless of your relationship to CADA, have relationship in community. And so, after Helen asks her question, I’ll have another one about that.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: Thank you, Toyin, thank you for everything you’re doing and your story today, it’s so inspiring. And when I think, when I listen to what you do and see how much you’ve done in this community and beyond since you’ve been here, and the good work that Sayo is doing in outreach, I know we don’t have hundreds of Sayos and hundreds of Toyins, but what if we did? Like, is there a way for us, you just were talking about ambassadors, is there a way for us to find to find a way to create a group of community ambassadors or cultural ambassadors that could be out in community. Because, as you know, a lot of times, we’re trying, of course, always to get the right message to the right people at the right time through the right channels, but the messenger is also very important, because even from your story it’s got to be someone that is trusted, and if they’re not trusted they could be scamming you right? So, is there a way that you could imagine that, or could you see a benefit to having a group of, or gathering, or inviting people to become a group of these kinds of ambassadors that are taking messages to the community and bringing messages back from the community. And I know the cultural instigators were doing a little bit of that work, but a little bit different, too. And I just wonder what your thoughts would be about the power of. If we could find more Sayos and more Toyins to bring this good work in the community, and I’m not talking about as volunteers, I’m talking about compensated in some way. What are your thoughts on that.

Toyin Oladele: Thank you for that question. Thank you. And I’m going, I’m saying this as I as I think, right, so at the same time. So there was something I did with ICAI a couple of years ago, like three years ago, I think. Remember in that part of my story where I said I was literally meeting with people, one on one, so somebody will come, they’ll be like, have you heard of this girl called Toyin, you should talk to her, and then we’ll talk. And then so at some point, of course, because I have, I also have a life, like, I also have my family and things like that. It was really and the job that I was doing, I wasn’t even working in the by the way, I wasn’t working in the arts during this period. No, it was just me volunteering through ICAI and other boards and projects that I was working on. So I would do all these things when I’m off work, literally. I just sat down one day and I felt like, Okay, this can’t continue, like, I don’t have the capacity to do this anymore. And so I created a program for ICAI called Mentors in Residence, right? And I’ve not seen that anywhere before, but I know there’s mentorship there is resident, I could link those two together, and I just designed something. What we’re doing with that program, and the reason why I’m using this program to answer you is because, again, Sayo is involved, is that is that, or was involved, what we’re doing with the program is this, we look at our members we look at who are the people that we think our members need the most. Okay, people need musicians, people need dancers, people need painters, okay? And then we go into the community and we select. I told a couple of CADA staff that at the start, is it okay to start picking from you guys now, because we’ve gone, we’re going across the community right? And we just select people that fit into those fields and we invite them to volunteer for ICAI for like two hours a month. These two hours, you’re not gonna believe the work, it was like I was replacing, I was duplicating myself, you know, it was just me meeting with everyone, and I just found that’s not, we had to look for a solution. And the solution, especially because I also got on the Northeast Public Art project, and I couldn’t, you know, talk to people one on one anymore. It was really tough.

So I was like, hey, how can I duplicate myself? And so we created like six or seven roles, and we’ve been alternating, we’ve had people from different fields come to volunteer for, we ask for just two hours, and these two hours have done unspeakable things for more (indistinguishable) this, this last cohort, I just felt like you know what? I haven’t done this in a while since, like two years, three years since I started the northeast project. I’m like I’d like to do it again, just to see how it’s doing, right? So I decided to apply as a volunteer to ICAI to be like, Hey, can I volunteer in this Mentors in Residence program. Luckily. Smitha, who was running the program then, she she’s now focusing on NAPP, and someone else is running this program, was just like, Yeah, absolutely. We’re looking for somebody like you. Yeah, please. And then I got on that, and I’ve been privileged to meet a new set of people that I didn’t even know with ICAI before. Where am I going with this story? And Sayo has been, in fact, Sayo, was a recurring mentor at some point, we just kept her on the list, and she just kept, because people were always reaching out to her. I think that one of the things we can do, picking from this story of this Mentors in Residence, is to just look in the community, like what you talked about the cultural instigators and look at people who are trusted, the only thing is that would be a maybe a special hat to that is how do we want to sustain that? I always think about sustainability before I create anything, before I do anything, because once something starts and then it stops, I personally feel it creates more damage than when you don’t start at all. Because some people already know imagine that, okay, so now, I’ve been doing this for a while right? And some people already know Oh, there’s this girl that does this thing for newcomers and stuff, and suddenly they don’t hear about it again. It is so devastating. So, if we have a handful of people are doing what Sayo does, maybe not full time, maybe, like, I said, we only ask for two hours a month, so technically every other week, who are like, maybe on a couple to just attend specific. And we can highlight this cultural groups right or this community groups to be like, you know what this is, what we want to focus on in the next one year we’re going to only select 10 people or 10 associations. And we’re going to have two people who would go around, right, and their only job is to go into these specific events. Because I tell you, Helen, I have seen concerts, theatre shows, and things like this in these communities that don’t know anything about CADA or anything about the larger art sector.

And so when I asked them that, do you know, you can get a grant for what you’re doing like? Do you know this thing? And they’re like, oh, really didn’t know that. So I’m like yeah, that’s it. If somebody, and I’m like, have you, and I used to, just tell them about Taylor, Taylor was like my guinea pig back then, I’m like Have you heard of this person called Taylor? Go talk to her, and I’ll just drop her email for them. This was like even before the pandemic, and I know that for most of those people it has really helped them, not just about grants. It’s also about the community right like, do you know, the are other people doing this type of things, and you can connect with them, and you can know what they’re doing, and you can get even more resources. Most of them would do these things for their community, there is nothing wrong with that. I have to say, however, there’s a larger Calgary audience that can actually also enjoy the shows and watch these things. And so why not spread it across, right? There are people who are really killing it in the northeast, like you can walk some street in the northeast, and it’s an entire festival like literally every two minutes walk, there’s this big poster about this big event happening. And I’m like, how come we don’t know these things? I love what Patti said about the mainstream. How come we don’t know? We should know, so that everything can like interwoven. And so sometimes I just leave my phone number, I leave ICAI’s website, I leave CADA’s website, or some of them might be like, Yeah, I’ve been to Art Commons once, I went there when I was like 18 from school, you know. I hear stories like that also, and I’m like, Yeah, but Art Commons still exists, you should come. There is actually this other office, and then this other office, you should take a shot.

But if there is someone, let me, again thinking about sustainability, a group at a time, maybe the whole of 2025. Let’s just say we’re focusing on 30 organizations across Calgary, and we have three people doing that. Can you build relationship or something with this just 30 organizations so that it’s sustainable, so that nobody is overwhelmed, so that in terms of capacity it is also realistic, results can be measured not in terms of numbers, but in terms of impact, and how free these people can be with some of these, some of our organizations, some of the things that we do and how they can start showing off and start seeing it. I don’t know if that answers your questions, but I think that that’s what I’ve tried before in the past, and it kind of worked so.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: Yeah, thank you. That’s an amazing answer. And also, I just, I think of things like, we have a free listing for what’s on in Calgary that that we would love to have more, more events that aren’t necessarily the ones that the mainstream know about. We want all of these events on there and our directories that that people will phone and say, Do you know about an artist? And we’ll say, Well, you can look at our artist directory, and reaching all of those artists and all of those organizations and communities that do events, even as simplistic as to get them on our get them knowing that there’s a free listing that they could access to spread the word, and our granting programs, and also, as you say, just connecting, how can we be a better connector. So that’s really helpful. Thanks so much, Toyin.

Toyin Oladele: You’re welcome, my pleasure.

Patti Pon: Thanks for that answer, Toyin, and that’s really terrific. Again, in the chat Maureen has added the YYC What’s On link and Nick, the classified ads.

Toyin Oladele: Oh, no! Sorry!

Patti Pon: No welcome.

Toyin Oladele: Oh, take your time!

Patti Pon: Okay, let me see if I can squeeze this question out before I cough. So I was mentioning that there are a number of people who are affiliated with a variety of different kinds of organizations.

Toyin Oladele: Absolutely. Yeah.

Patti Pon: And I think sometimes they might be volunteers, sometimes they might not have necessarily a senior role. But nevertheless, you were talking about all those organizations that you would just show up at, like all the cold calls right? So I think you have a pretty good script. This opportunity with people. And I wonder if you might offer us some of your key messages.

Toyin Oladele: Why not?

Patti Pon: We might be able to use when we go to the organizations that we have relationship with to encourage…

Toyin Oladele: Oh, absolutely, number one is food! Love food. I’m telling you the truth, Patti. I’m not kidding. Number one is food, so I don’t know. I don’t even know how to say this, but one thing, I observed is that food is also always a good way to start conversations, you know. And I like to explore. I like food, I have to say, so I think it was one of the things that really encouraged me to like just go, at least, even if nobody talks to you, you get to taste their food. So I would always just show up and be like, Okay, what is this. Okay, do you know, I mean, and people are always curious right, to be like, so what do you do? And then that’s the only time I talk about the arts. That’s number two.

A lot of times when I’ve had a lot of organizations, honestly, and I’m only gonna lie, because some of them might be here, approach me, large arts organizations and things like that to be like, okay, how do you get those people out? I’m like the number one thing is, you don’t even need to necessarily talk about the arts at first, because don’t forget that even for those people, I’ll give you an example. So I was really desperate to find a day home for my son, who was like a year plus and was just, he just suddenly became, I don’t know, there was this surge of energy. I couldn’t explain it. I had to throw him somewhere. I had to throw him in a day home so, and I was really desperate, and I met this day home owner, and she was asking me what I do, she lives very close to my house, and I told her I work in the arts and things like this. She went inside and pulled out everything she has done in the arts before that moment, and she said she has a degree in the arts, she used to do something graphics, and she went giving me her, like what is it called now? Like, qualifications and things like that. And I was like, so why did you drop the arts? And she was like she came here, she couldn’t really find a way around it. So she decided to like, go for training, to have a day home and things like that. See? I didn’t even go there talking about what I do. A lot of times, it’s the last thing I say. A lot of times when we go into these places, and we’re like, oh, do you know there’s this? Do you know, there’s this? You know, it’s usually the last thing I say, I just enjoy the food, enjoy the conversation, get to know more about them. Understand, you know what they want, how they think, the kind of places that make them feel comfortable, how I can make myself feel.

And don’t also forget that I’m coming from Nigeria. Nigeria on Wikipedia, I think it’s there that we have about 500 languages. That’s not even true, it’s probably more than 3,000 or 4,000 or 5,000, and I know that because even from little villages and little towns, you could have, like 10 different dialects in a small town. And so I’m coming from that background also that understands that you could live on one street in Lagos, for instance, and there could be like 50 houses coming from different tribes in Nigeria, and you have to live together in peace and harmony, right? That is already some sort of training that like prepped me for this kind of conversations like that’s, that’s one key thing. And so when I get to those places I honestly just want to learn more about people, more about their culture, more about what they do. And it is very sincere. It is very, because people can sense when you’re not sincere. Also, it’s just a matter of time, it’s very sincere, I’m learning about their language. Luckily for me, I speak a little French, so sometimes people are like, Oh, if I see anybody speaking French, I switch. And then it’s always very interesting to know how people got here, and their story and their story, and some people can go on and on. Even when I go for gymnastics for my kids, I find people there who work in the arts, and it’s usually the last thing I say, but eventually it gets there. It’s always trying to know about their child. What does their child like? What do you know? What do you think? What else? A lot of questions about them. It’s usually focused on them, especially for us in the culture sector, in the art and culture sector, we’re telling stories with what we do.

But we’re not telling our own story alone. So I’m not going to tell you my story alone. That’s going to be boring over time. But we’re telling a lot of people’s stories. So if we’re more open to hearing other people’s stories, trust me, it’s like a jackpot. Eventually they would open up. They will tell you what they want to do, and you would have the access that you need, like, you would get that access. You will gain trust. And it’s not ABC, it’s not one plus one. It takes time. It takes effort. I got to know about the arts very late 2018, so almost two years after I got here, about two years. I started about a year after September 2019, because it took a while to get people to like trust and believe that I actually am doing this thing to help. And we’re doing this thing to help. So, yeah, I think conversations around food around other people, other people’s interests. Why are they here? What are they doing? What’s their story? Eventually it gets you there, it gets you that trust, and then you can start talking about Do you know you can get a grant? Do you know there’s something called CADA? Have you heard of Arts Commons before? Those would come, but initially, let’s just enjoy conversations over food, of course. Yeah, I don’t know. That’s one thing I’ve done that has worked, and I think along the line you would, you will get better at it honestly, you will know when not to talk about food, you will know, okay, this is the last place to talk about food. Just focus on, just focus on the art, especially when people invite you into spaces where they are only inviting you because of what you know. Just focus on that, because that’s what they need. They don’t need you to get to know them in that moment, I mean, Sayo, myself and Sayo, we attended an event once where it was about students, right? It was about people who just wanted to know how to connect into the arts. And that’s one more thing I’d like to add to this, right, like, I love what CADA is doing about Public Art 101, of course. And I think that maybe we can also do that in in general, not necessarily for public arts only, but I’ve met someone who went to school here graduated from AUArts, but didn’t know about the fact that they could get grants. I don’t know when they graduated, it’s been a long time for us, of course, and I told them about it, invited them to one of the events that CADA was doing, and that was how we started for them, and I got to know them through the Northeast Public Art project, see?

So maybe some sort of session, maybe four times a year, something that that says, how do you become an artist in a place like this? Not necessarily for newcomers, it’s not like newcome- focused, in general like Being an Artist 101, or Working in the Arts 101. What does that mean? How do you start? How do you get in something close to? How do you become an arts manager? That’s, Rozsa does something like that, maybe, but focused on everything in terms of your practice and how you network. And it could be like a physical event. It could be like an online event. But maybe something like that would help also, maybe.

Patti Pon: I think that’s great. Thank you, Toyin, for that, and you know, and I think that, like some of the pieces of advice that I heard remind me of, you know, the kinds of things that you’re talking about aren’t necessarily about showing up at the office on a day, but really trying to sort of scan the horizon and see what kinds of events, community events, might be placed that are often open to the public, even though you might not feel very comfortable in attending if you’re not a member of that community. I ,you know I told this story many times, but I think, about the first time Helen and I went to a pow wow and we saw it said all welcome, and so we showed up at lunch, and it became very evident very quickly, that that part of the pow wow wasn’t really intended for us. It was meant for ethnic community members. You know, we kind of walked 10 feet in, and then slowly there we kind of backed out the 10 feet. However we did go back in the evening. That part of the powwow was absolutely open to the public.

Toyin Oladele: Absolutely.

Patti Pon: Even though there were things that we didn’t really know about protocol, we got to watch. We got to observe. And then over time as we attended more pow wows, we got to understand how people relate and what that protocol and that practice is, and also discovered how welcoming people were into a conversation, and then once they found out we were with Calgary Arts Development, and then and then and then and then it goes on from there, and it’s opened us up to, it’s contributed to open, opening us up to a really incredible reconciliation. Truth and reconciliation journey. Me personally. And so I hear a similar kind of opportunity, not only with newcomer communities, but, as you said with other communities that you currently aren’t in relationship with already. And so the challenge, of course, is always time. I think the thing that I again I hear from Toyin, and I’ve seen from Sayo in her work, is maybe this is about redirecting your time to those communities who haven’t had the benefit about a CADA Open House, or about an Equity Town Hall, or about an open audition that might be taking place, or call for exhibitions, or for interns, or mentors or jobs, or those things. And so I appreciate the invitation to sort of open ourselves up to, you know, going back through your rolodex and thinking about where you meet other creatives, even at the gymnastics, even at the gym, about ways in which people live their most creative lives. And it might be about making a living at it, and it might not be, but regardless, right? The more we increase the community of creatives, and also hear and share in their stories, the stronger we become as a community and at Congress, absolutely Helen. So I don’t see any questions in the chat. I’m going to invite anybody, just take a moment here to see if there are any comments or questions that people would like to offer, or any insights that that Toyin has. You know there’s a part of me that says, How do we clone, Toyin?

Toyin Oladele: There’s always someone asking that. No, I’m scared. Oh, okay.

Patti Pon: More Toyins in the world. Right? There’s facets and elements that you offer around curiosity. Yeah, around making assumptions I think a humility in terms of, you know, being brave and going into those community events where they’re not your community events.

Toyin Oladele: No, no. no, no.

Patti Pon: So you know, sometimes I think it’s hard to do that. And it’s not part of the comment like it’s get on social media…

Toyin Oladele: No.

Patti Pon: …you know, go find word of mouth, then be you tell a friend, and they tell a friend, and maybe it is. But then it’s about different friends, right?

Toyin Oladele: Absolutely absolutely.

Patti Pon: Geraldine’s got a lovely comment. You’re very welcome, Geraldine, and I know that you work in a variety of communities as well, so would invite any reflections or thoughts that you have or experiences. You know I think so much of what Toyin is sharing is from a lived experience, perspective. A learned experience.

Toyin Oladele: Yes, yes, yes, and interestingly there are, there are lots of learned experiences also that I’m not, I’m not going to deny. However, I find that the lived experiences, the learned experiences are like foundation. They’re more foundational for me. They are more like they are like tools and some sort of templates that the lived experiences that I can use to analyze and do a lot of critical thinking for the lived experiences, you see, and so that I’m able to articulate them the way I’m articulating them right now, because, you know, you go through things every day, and sometimes, if you’re not careful, you might lose sight of what is happening around you and what is happening, but because of the learned experiences, I have a degree in French language and literature and performing arts. So there’s a training to my, you know, artistry right? However, that that did not get me here. No, it was more about everything that I saw without even saying, and everything that I heard without even speaking. It’s just about observing and being very curious.

I was at a museum once where I just, it was an Islamic museum. And at first, because when you’re coming from Nigeria, and you don’t know anything about Islam, or a particular religion or Christianity, something sometimes your bias kicks in, and you’re like, huh! Will I be able to enjoy this art? I went in there, and it’s the most beautiful, most beautiful museum I have ever ever ever been to in my life. It was beautiful, it was beautiful, it was beautiful. Everything just spoke about, you know, Islamic history and the journey and civilization. And I was like I need to start living here, I recorded literally all the moments I had, which I hardly do, because I just sometimes I want to talk into the experience I forget to record or take pictures or something. I did not forget this time, even when I was leaving when I was in my Uber I was still taking pictures and still recording, because I just wanted to make sure that I don’t lose that experience. And so if we’re open-minded and we’re curious, in all both our lived and learned experience they would they would experiences, they would come together. One would give us like a template to analyze each other the other. and I think it would give us clarity around. You know life in general, so my final thoughts.

Patti Pon: That would be great. That’s great. Thank you. Helen, I see you. You came on camera. Was that because you had a comment or question.

Helen Moore-Parkhouse: Oh, no, no, I I don’t know why I did that.

Patti Pon: All right. Just doing a quick check of the chat. I I see that we don’t have any questions. Toyin, I could have this conversation with you for the whole…

Toyin Oladele: I know.

Patti Pon: However, I’m very mindful of your time and that of our so I wonder if there are any sort of parting messages or things that you wanted to share in this conversation that you haven’t had a chance to share yet.

Toyin Oladele: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, thank you. Thanks for asking that. I think there are just three key things that I’d like to talk about, and I’ll try to make it very brief. One is about ICAI ‘s programming, just so, people know, like a lot of people are kind of curious about the organization and how we operate and things like that. ICAI is a heavily volunteer-led organization because we, like I talked about MIR, Mentors in Residence, that’s what we do every day all day, because we’re able to impact more people that way. So we hire volunteer mentors to help with our members. We also have the Newcomer Art Professional Program, which is the one we created during the pandemic, big thank you to CADA, to Rozsa Foundation, to Geraldine for supporting with, you know, structuring that, and a whole lot of people that you know support all the mentors and the mentees that we’ve had. We’ve had amazing, you know, people in in those cohorts were in the third now, and again, there’s just one in Montreal, there’s one in Toronto, there’s one in New York, and then there’s one in Alberta, in Calgary which I’m really proud to always talk about.

This program has taken really different turns because we, the programs coordinator has done an amazing job, you know, just restructuring things. Her name is Smitha, and put in a lot of effort, and then looking into the community to get all these mentors that we have, it has been amazing. So those are some of the things that we, then we have workshops regularly that you can refer people to. There are things on the website that you can, you know, like quick study, that people can take a look at to learn one or two things about how to connect to this sector. We also have a classified. So if you ever, if you’re here, and you ever want to like post some information that you want our community to see, feel free to send on Instagram, or, you know, to Bukhtawar, who is in charge of the communications, or just send to anybody really at ICAI. It will be sent to the right person, or just send to me, or just send to Sayo. Sayo will always find us.

And I also want to quickly touch base on some of the challenges that come to newcomers, because I know everybody listening now in your different roles, some of these things can help. So, apart from individual connection, or connecting with different communities that I’ve said, in your roles and in your, just be mindful of the fact that not everybody has been exposed to what you’ve been exposed to, right. We always say that. Not everybody, I didn’t even know what BIPOC, I only say this BIPOC, what it meant, until during the pandemic I have a degree like I have a bachelor’s right. So this is not a matter of oh, because you’re not educated. No. But where I come from we’re all black people, so there has never really been anything about being black or being a person of colour. It took me a while to figure out that when they say a person of colour, they’re actually referring to someone like me. I didn’t know that.

So when you’re having conversations, because those are the other nuances that I became very aware of very early that helped me maintain conversations, right? So I don’t use words like that in those kind of new conversations. I’m not going there to be like, you know, as a person of colour, I think it’s important for… I don’t even know what you mean by saying that not because they’re not educated, but because they’ve always been a person of colour, or they’ve not always been. How are they supposed to know that as a term you’re using North America, or that you’re using Canada?

So those things are like important, right, for knowledge, and to be able to maintain conversations. Because, as you go into the community, and you try to create being an ambassador and being all these things, it is so important that you’re mindful of these things. And when we say things like, Oh, what type of artistry do you do? What is your artistic impact? And all these things, we can, you know, explain them in other type of ways that would make people understand. Oh, what we’re literally saying is that your art, what does it do to the community? How do people feel after watching your show or hearing you perform? Or how are you hoping people will feel? You know, those kind of little nuances? It makes a lot of difference.

And the last thing I want to say is this: Honestly, I’ve had, especially with all these, all the which I’m very humble to have received, you know, for, like almost two years now, there’s been a lot of running of different recognitions and things like that, I always like to say this every time I have a chance to. We’re coming from different places. I count myself as a very privileged person, because of where, even though I’m coming from Nigeria, I’m coming from a very privileged place. I grew up in a family of business people, my dad, my mom, the business people. I was literally born into their business, so I know how to put one and one together, one and one together, to make two. I know how to have conversations in such a way that you understand me. I have some sort of confidence that I can, you know, up a little to achieve what I want. I know about negotiation. I know about this business skills that got me here that got ICAI here under five years. Now, please don’t put that pressure on yourself. I always want to say this. We all have different journeys, and we all have, and your practice as an artist, as an individual, as an arts leader. I usually don’t say if I can do it, you can do it. I mean that, it sounds so inspiring when people say it, but I always love to emphasize it, like, we all have different capacities and I acknowledge the privilege that I have. I’m humbled by it, but I acknowledge it, and I know that it has given me an edge in some circumstances, in some situations that has helped me to be able to, you know, read a document and understand what this person is trying to say, even though my context is different. I always want to bring that into, you know, conversations like this like, in case you’re here, you’re a newcomer, or you’re in the arts, or maybe you’re not even in the arts, and you sometimes feel overwhelmed because people reach out to me, some of our members to be like, how can I be like you, and I’m like as much as it is good, and I appreciate the fact that you feel I’ve inspired you to want to do more, it’s important to understand your own story, your own journey, your own privilege, and the things that you know, make you feel strong and empowered in your own way that would get you to where you’re supposed to be. The journey is always different for different people, and I just always want to acknowledge that. I appreciate, you know, inviting me to this space today, I appreciate all the opportunities that I’ve received, but, and, I always want to say that I acknowledge the things that got me here and how the stories came together, and how, even from the little things that you mentioned Patti about me just showing up to some places, it takes a lot of courage to do that, and some of those things I built from when I was a child, like growing up, I’ve been given those skills, I’ve been taught those skills because of the people that I grew up with. And in case you’re on a journey to developing that part of you, please don’t talk down on yourself. Don’t feel low. Don’t feel like I’m not doing enough. I need to do more. No, you’re enough. You’re doing so well already, you don’t need to be more. You are already killing it. And eventually you would figure it out. Different people, different journey and different stories. I just always like to wrap up with that because I get a lot of question around that a lot. And I know that some people might watch this video and hear all the stories of what ICAI has done these awards and this and be like, Oh, I’d like to be like, yeah, it’s great. I’m grateful that you feel inspired by my story, but don’t let that put you under any pressure. Final thought. Thank you.

Patti Pon: That’s a pretty great final thought to land on. Thank you very much, Toyin, and I’m just going to my notes here to make sure.

Toyin Oladele: Thank you.

Patti Pon: I asked you all the questions I was supposed to ask you. Kind of. But I appreciate you having those last three thoughts. So on that note, many thanks Toyin, and I have added the ICAIonline.org link back to into the bottom of the chat. So people.

Toyin Oladele: Oh, thank you, thank you.

Patti Pon: That’s the best way, I think, to find a and reach out to Toyin, and as I’m sure all of you are can tell from being a part of this conversation, and for those of you who might watch the recording, Toyin and ICAI are a wonderful resource in the community, and with that spirit of curiosity and generosity always open to hearing from organizations who might be seeking advice about your own EDIA journey, and particularly with regard to connecting with newcomer artists and creatives, and who knows? Maybe Toyin would even welcome the opportunity for you to tag along the next time she goes to an event.

Toyin Oladele: Absolutely. You’ll love it.

Patti Pon: Oh, I know I’m gonna ask her. So thank you all very, very much for joining us, particularly Toyin, particular Deborah and Janice for serving as our ASL interpreters. Thank you so much. And of course, to all of you who have taken the time to join us today. Our next Equity Town Hall is on November 25, same time, noon to 2pm MST. It’ll be mountain standard time, and the topic will be Artists as Changemakers. And there’s a link to register for that upcoming meeting. I’d also like to let you know that this year’s Living a Creative Life Conference, Congress, sorry, is scheduled for December 4 and 5 at the Central Public Library. In the conversations I’ve had with the planning group some really amazing programming and a wonderful keynote speaker. Some of you who had joined us last year may have heard from Mark Bamuti Joseph and been inspired like I was, I think you will be equally inspired, and that information will be shared very shortly.

I’m just looking in the chat here, there’s all… Oh, thanks, Nick, he put the link in for the future equity town halls. If you want to click on the link and learn more. the final thing I would share is that December 16 Calgary Arts Development holds its Annual Open House. We’re doing it at our office this year, even though we’ve been there for just over almost two years, actually January of 2023 when we moved in. I know it may be new for some of our community members so and excuse me while some random person phones me, and so please spread the word, please share it widely, we would love to see people one of the things we hear about this gathering is, it’s always a great time to meet new people.

Toyin Oladele: Yeah.

Patti Pon: Many kind of collaborations have come of having these first meetings at the Holiday Open House gathering, so I hope that you will be able to join us. And again, more information will be available on our website very, very soon. So once again, thank you all very much for joining us today. I hope you all have a wonderful week and I hope we’ll see you at the next Equity Town Hall on November 25. Be well, everybody take care! Don’t get my cough.

Bye.

Toyin Oladele: Bye, everyone such a big privilege.